How To Debate An Objectivist Using Godwin's Law

One of the things that will happen when debating a non-utilitarian is that they will eventually compare you to the Nazis and the Soviets. This is simply because we are like those two groups. Any rational person would realize that fact after just a tiny bit of researching utilitarianism. But there is a general rule of etiquette concerning internet threads, and one of the rules is Godwin's Law, which states

As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups.

The most important part is that anyone that likens someone else to Nazism automatically loses the argument, and that it basically guarantees that utilitarians will win arguments against objectivists if they hold on long enough. It works something like this.


Hitler: "Aryans are the master race. We should exterminate the Jews."



Me: "F*** you, you Nazi!"



Hitler: "Godwin's Law."



Me: "God damn it. OK you win, Hitler."


Nazis and utilitarians believe in many of the same things and differ only in details. Noting similarities between the two belief systems is accurate. But the fact that such an accusation against utilitarians has merit does not justify its use, because we live in a society where it is taboo to call socialism and welfare statism what they really are- philosophies of death.

Capitalism = Corporate Police State

And here is an excellent demonstration of what I mean


Funny, isn't it? In any society, the government has a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. But one way to attack objectivists is to claim that preventing force in society equals initiating force. When you ban the use of force, you no longer have a means of imposing taxes and regulations on your fellow man through the letigimacy of legislation. THIS IS WRONG! First you can't demand steel tariffs, next thing you know they are taking away your right to burglarize houses. If we surrender our ability to seize property though taxation, who will fund my medical expenses? Anyone but me, goddamn it.

Notice the reversal in this cartoon. We are admitting that force is bad, yet we are attacking the only system that prevents force, and we ourselves stand for different variants of collectivism, which all require force. We are either all duplicitous liars, or a bunch of fucking ignorant assholes. Maximizing my personal utility requires infringing the rights of others. I won't live in a police state that forces other people's rights on me.

Some Fellow Utilitarians

Look at how these good people take care of their fellow man! I found this online. I think it is from AmeriCorps or something. The translation of this text is Health, child protection, fighting poverty, aiding travellers, community, helping mothers: These are the tasks of the National Socialist People's Charity. Become a member!

Wow, what swell guys! As I can only presume this is some AmeriCorps poster to attract German Americans, and as I am up to half German, I too am eager to sacrifice myself on behalf of other Americans. I am signing up and should you. Otherwise altruism holds that you are worthless. So become a Utilitarian today! Then you might be worth something, its got to be worth a shot!

I Have A Right To Life

Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident; That all men are created equal, that they endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...

I am pre-law. This means whatever I think thiss statement means is infallible, and I won't be tolerating any difference of opinion from commoners like you. The meaning of my right to life is that despite the laws of nature, I have a right to automatic food and health care. This means enslaving my fellow man through institutionalized violence. Their property will need to be expropriated in the form of taxes so that I can live. But uh oh it also says people have a right to liberty! Well we can't embrace both, what would you have life or liberty! You can't enjoy liberty when your dead so become a Utilitarian today!

Sick Of The Ayn Rand Cult

Objectivists believe the mind comes to understand reality through logic and observation. The mind engages in a continual life long process of integration and differentiation for the creation of concepts, making abstract thought possible and thus the development and accumulation of an understanding of reality from birth to later years. Clearly, this scientific process of observing reality and drawing conclusions is faith based and cultish. It is like when Einstein declared E=MC^2, like HOW DOES HE KNOW!?!? By observing reality and applying logic? That is not reliable. The only reliable source of knowledge is intuition.

Religion is an alleged shortcut to knowledge. So is the acceptance of the doctrine of self sacrifice. So is skepticism, the philosophy that the imagination is an equally valid source of knowledge as empiricism. Utilitarianism is in actuality a faith-based system, while Objectivism is not, but get this!- we actually accuse Objectivists of believing in a faith based system! Thats right, we are basically calling science a faith system, and referring to our own faith system as science? Mua ha ha ha ha we are so evil. Wrong... but evil.

For Those Of You Just Joining...

Welcome to my site! As you by now know, I have given up on logic and empirical evidence and am instead turning to other sources of knowledge, intuition and feeling. As with all other irrational belief systems, it is my goal to one day force my beliefs on everyone else in the world. If God didn't want it that way, he would stop me, right? So come on in, get comfortable, and enjoy some fine philosophizing by a Utilitarian that has given up on the Ayn Rand cult.

Communism Isn't So Bad, Let's Give It Another Shot!

The founders of communist Russia were great men. They had the interests of the Russians in mind when they enslaved them on collectivized farms to subsidize the newly nationalized factories. At least their hearts were in the right place.

You see, their only goal was to create an economy stronger than Western-style mixed economies. Nothing wrong with that. That their heart was in the right place was an automatic blank check to act however they needed to to achieve their utopia, including enslaving peasants and murdering 10 million troublemaking pro-freedom rebels. Anything goes in the name of collective good, such as exterminatiing 12 million Eastern Europeans so that Germany could get some much needed "room to live".

The Objectivists try to paint the debate as "freedom versus slavery". But in actuality the issue is slavery for a good cause, which is good, versus slavery for a bad cause, which is bad. Yes for Utilitarianism, slavery and human sacrifice!

Can't Get My Fill Of John Stuart Mill

But was he a whim-worshipping witch doctor like Ayn Rand? She is that nutty objectivist that thinks people have no right to initiate force against other people, and only have the right to resist or retaliate against the initiation of force. I don't like this because then I have no moral justification for imposing welfare state socialism on people. But Look at what I just read in On Liberty, by Mill:

The object of this Essay is to assert one very simple principle, as entitled to govern absolutely the dealings of society in the way of compulsion and control, whether the means used be physical force in the form of legal penalties, or the moral coercion of public opinion. That principle is, that the sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection.

So men have a natural right to their freedom, and other men have no right to infringe on it? No fair no fair no fair! But I want free stuff, and obtaining that stuff requires enslaving other men! I want free education through grad school, I want free health care, food and other welfare, housing, retirement, a car, a guaranteed job, and luxuries.

Why can't I have those things, J.S. Mill? Why aren't you thinking of the children?

Don't Let Objectivists Force Reason On You!

When debating an Objectivist, one thing they will ask of you is to justify your attempts to force your beliefs on them. Sounds fair enough, doesn't it? Well it isn't, you freaking idiot! There is no rational justification for forcing your religious or ethical beliefs on other people. Luckily for Utilitarians, we live in a nation where freedom and property rights are expropriated by legislative power all the time. Religion and altruism are forced down the throats of Americans, and many of them love it, because they too have accepted the guilt-inducing irrational philosophies out there, like religion and altruism.

A philosophy is irrational when it has no foundation in analytic or synthetic knowledge. Religions by definition require faith and are irrational. The belief that men owe self-sacrifice to others, aka altruism, is equally irrational. How can you tell the difference between a rational belief and an irrational one? When you disobey an irrational philosophy, reality is not involved so there is no punishment in reality. When you disobey a rational philosophy (you have to hunt and gather in order to eat, for instance), reality DOES punish you, and death can result.

How dare the Objectivists force their belief on Utilitarians like us by not allowing us to force our beliefs on them?

Why I Am A Born Again Utilitarian.

because Objectivism is flawed. Reason doesn't give me the answers I want! I don't want to work for survival. So I will guilt the masses into surrendering their freedom and property to me. You might think it would be harder, but Americans are so stupid that Utilitarians and mystics have been succeeding at it for two centuries.

The Utilitarian Utopia

Thge country would be a lot better off if it would just let Utilitarians like me be in charge. People should surrender their freedom and property to bureaucrats because they are too stupid to be in control of their own autonomy.

Reality exists, that is true. But reason is impotent for you to understand reality. The solution? Instead of trying to decide how to live, let me do it for you. Nevermind that I just said none of us have the ability to discern the facts of reality. Stop changing the subject! You cant trust your own mind to discern the rules of reality, so you should be letting me do it for you! Surrendering your rights in a mixed economy is right because I say so. doesn't it make so much sense?!?!

Bend It Like Bentham. Philosophizing as only a Utilitarian can.

FDR Was God

fdr was teh best presedent evver! he destroyyed a free cuontry and made it more utilitarin! Now i now what you are say, what makes him so the best eveer? yes it true, and he was in for 13 years to. He ritefuly inprisoned teh japnese americans so taht they wouldn't attaack americans! alll his policy was the sacrifice of induvidual to the cuontry. Sieg Heil FDR

How To Debate An Objectivist

A Brief Guide

Never, ever define your terms

Never identify your own principles, or better yet...

Don't have any principles

Deny reason, then use it to make arguments anyway

Don't let Objectivists infringe on your god-given right to force your beliefs on other people

Substitute empty rhetoric for logical arguments

Use non sequitors and the reductio ad absurdam

Why Three Guys Should Be Allowed To Rape A Woman On An Island

Because it is the situation that produces the most utility for the greatest number of people. Did you know Objectivism wouldn't let you rape a woman on an island! That is why you need to become a Utilitarian today!

Utilitarianism Explained

Metaphysics: Reality
Epistemology: Skepticism
Ethics: Consequentialism
Politics: Populism

versus icky Objectivism:

Metaphysics: Reality
Epistemology: Reason
Ethics: Selfishness
Politics: Capitalism

Objectivism is silly and unrealistic. Luckily we have Utilitarianism! Now listen how easy it is and more realistic than Objectivism to impliment in the real world! All you have to do to decide the proper course of action in any scenario is to measure the utility that will result from each action, choosing the one that results in the most utility, measured by the following: intensity, duration, certainty, propinquity, fecundity, purity and extent. But uh oh! Jeremy Bentham didn't tell us how to measure them! By intuition of course! That is how we are so connected to reality unlike the silly Objectivists.

Out With Objectivism, In With Utilitarianism....

...because I was really getting too tired of thinking all the time. I have studied Objectivism for the past year, and have found certain flaws in it tha tmake me think Ayn Rand was nothing but a crazy cultist whim-worshipping witch doctor! Deep rooted conflicting questions lie at the heart of Objectivism, like

1. How will taxes be levied in an objectivist nation?
2. How practical would privatized road systems be?
3. How far does the right to bear arms extend?
4. Who will think of the children?

Suffice to say, I have been attracted to utilitarianism for its no-nonsense approach to these sorts of problems, where the answer is always, "whatever the majority thinks." No thinking required!

The theory that majority rule constitutes an infallible source of ethics rests on four main premises:

1. Reason is impotent, rendering reality unknowable.
2. The location of groups of people affects ethics, as what is right for one body of people is not right for another.
3. The number of individuals in a given group matters. If there are 1 man and one woman on an island, the utility is maximized when they each maintain their autonomy. If there are one girl and three men on an island, the utility is maximized when the three guys rape the girl. The actions of each scenario are equally ethical in Utilitarianism.
4. There are no such things as "rights". Tautologically, rights are universal. There are no universals in Utilitarianism. We are moral relativists. By logical extension, the laws of science are subjective, meaning they are not the same for everyone. 2+2=4 works for me, but for you, who knows! So become a utilitarian today!

Utilitarianism is awesome. When reason gives me an answer that I don't like ("8 dollars per hour at my job times 8 hours leaves me with 64 dollars... but I wanna million dollars!"), I simply evade analytic and synthetic evidence, stomp up and down on the ground in a hissy fit, and make up my own rules on survival. Because you can choose to live rationally... or you can ignore reality and hope to survive anyway. We choose the latter. Join us.


This might be a good place for a disclaimer. This site is a parody meant to demonstrate how ridiculous Utilitarianism is, especially in its attacks on Objectivism, which is the only rational philosophy out there.